Uh ... Ya.  My parents were divorced and my mother had a new boy friend, and I often went and stayed overnight with the sister of the boy friend.  She was called Elly.  One day Elly said to me "Let's go to the nude swimming at the Heiligeweg²⁰⁷ baths," and I said, "Fine, I'll come along" and Ferdinand also came with us.  He was a friend of Elly's and so I got to know Ferdinand via Elly.  Now, it was really nice.  It clicked straight away.  Just diving from the diving board and playing with a ball in the water.  For some time after that I didn't go swimming.  Then one day Elly said, "Come, let's go and visit Ferdinand because his wife is having a birthday."  I said, "Great, terrific."  And then Elly added, "You had better watch out for Ferdinand because he's pedophile."  Now, I was pretty well up with the times when it came to sex.  I knew about all kinds of sexual things.

Nothing actually.  I wasn't shocked, and then she said, "He sometimes has relationships with young children."  And then she added, "mostly boys."  I didn't respond.  Then we went to the birthday party.  Now, for the whole evening I followed Ferdinand around, of my own will.  At that time I was crazy about Andre Hazes, that is a singer, and I kept asking, "May I put this tape on?" and that sort of thing.  When Ferdinand went to the kitchen I went to the kitchen.  When Ferdinand went into the bedroom, by way of speaking, I also went into the bedroom.  I followed him the whole time.  Then from my own initiative I said, "I'll come one day and visit."  After that we went home.  For a while after that I didn't stay overnight with Elly, but then later on a few more times.

I don't know.  Just that I was too young to follow up my agreements.  I just went my own way and if I felt like going to Ferdinand then I went to Ferdinand and if I didn't feel like it I didn't go.

And then I started again and then Ferdinand told my mother what it was all about.  I don't remember precisely how many weekends that must have been, but my mother said that I had improved after that discussion she had with Ferdinand.

In the beginning period, with him at home, just ordinary games.  Ya, ordinary games at home with Ferdinand, and we also went to entertainment parks, for example the Efteling.

Yes, also.  That has been so all along.  That always went on.  In the beginning we also went swimming frequently.  And if I had to study, to finish my home work, then Ferdinand helped me.  Yes, that was really great, everything put together it was great.

I just wanted to.  My mother sometimes went away for the weekends and then she would say, "Why don't you go and stay with Elly."  And I never had any problems with that because Elly went swimming often and that was fun. 

Uh ... No.  From about two months, three months.  I guess you want to know how it started?  It just happened naturally.  I was a nudist and so I slept naked.  Ferdinand also, and I felt myself attracted to him.  We played games sometimes, for example, helicopter.  I'd sit on Ferdinand's belly and he'd jiggle to and fro and he would say something like, "Wind force ten", or "Wind force one."  I would get such a warm feeling inside.  It came up in myself, and then everything went along like in any relationship between and man and a woman, for example.  The first night that we had a sexual contact, that was a real cuddling²⁰⁸ session.  By cuddling session I mean stroking each other and then Ferdinand sucked me off.  When that happened such a strange feeling went all the way through me that I began to cry.  I didn't regret doing it, but the crying suddenly came up, and then Ferdinand comforted me and then he also began to cry.  He even shouted out, "What have I done?"  He was actually shocked.  He was rather badly shocked that I was crying.  And then we talked about it, and then there wasn't a problem any more.  After that the sexual contact went on quite naturally.

Yes, you could put it that way.  Sex had become just as common between us as in any heterosexual relationship.  Thus, not that we had sex every night or every day.  But yes, it was part of our relationship.  To a greater or lesser degree it strengthened our bond.

Yes, because at a certain stage you think to yourself, "What am I actually doing?"  You choose your own way, being a boy.  And I must honestly say, in that end period I had a strong feeling of, "What on earth am I doing?"

What are the negative aspects of your contact with Ferdinand?

What do your parents think about your contact with Ferdinand?

I went one evening to Ferdinand and I had a good talk with him about problems that I had at home at that time.  I had been kicked out of the house because of problems I had with my parents.  I have had problems with my parents all my life, for that matter.  About twelve o'clock I left Ferdinand's place.  Between half past twelve and half past one the police came and took Ferdinand with them to Utrecht.

I don't know.  I hardly have any contact with my parents.  The only contact we have goes something like this, "Ferdinand phoned," or "Ferdinand has been through this or that"' or "The solicitor told me this or that"' and then I reply to my mother, "Now I shall call myself," or, "I'll write to him."  My mother sometimes asks, "How is it going with Ferdinand?"  Luckily I now live with my girlfriend, for one and a half years now.

Real crazy, man.  Our house is almost finished.  Soon we are getting a new settee and dinette.  It is really going fine.  Now and again we have an argument, but that is normal in a relationship.  Everyone has that once in a while.

Why not?  He is my friend, so I am concerned about what happens to him and I want to know how he is doing because he is my friend.  I want to know how he feels.  I wanted to know what they were doing and what would happen next.  Just my concern.  And also out of love, naturally, because it really hurt me.  Look, it didn't affect me so badly as Johnny.  Johnny was really lying awake at night.  I couldn't do that because I had too many problems of my own.  And I regret that at the time Ferdinand was arrested and in jail, that I had so many problems that I was not always up with the latest.  Certainly with the main part, but not the details.  That I really regret.  But I wrote to Ferdinand in order to keep in touch and because I also wanted him with me.  And thanks to the letters he was, in a way, always with me.